Not long ago, I linked to Monster Tiles, a nifty little product from Ocho Games. They’re 1″ (and 2″) ceramic tiles with pictures of monsters on them — essentially, scaled-up counters or scaled-down miniatures, depending on your perspective.
I liked the idea, but not the price ($1.10 per tile), and some TT readers had some concerns about their durability. This came up in the comments to my original post, and David DeHart from Ocho Games dropped by to address some of those concerns.
I offered to review Monster Tiles, and David was kind enough to send me a sample. They’re an interesting hybrid of miniature and counter, and they combine some of the best and worst features of both.
First Impression
My sample set included seven tiles: two 2″ tiles (an ogre and a spider) and five 1″ tiles (wolf, gargoyle, vampire, goblin and rust monster). Each tile is a square of ivory/off-white ceramic with a color illustration on the front and the Monster Tiles logo on the back, and is 1/4″ thick. Their front and back faces are slightly beveled.
They have a nice heft to them, substantial without being too heavy. They’re satisfying to hold, which is hard to quantify but also unmistakeable — I kept wanting to pick them up.
Unfortunately, they don’t feel nearly as good. There’s a chalky quality to them, much like the bottom of a coffee mug (as opposed to the sides), and I found myself checking my hands for dust after handling them. (There wasn’t any dust, of course.)
Artwork
The artwork on my sample tiles was generally quite good, and was evocative without being so unique that it would be jarring in a “standard” game. The images are detailed, the colors stand out well and they have a unified look to them.
They’re not quite as crisp as the counters I’m used to (from Fiery Dragon), but that’s partly due to the artist’s style, which tends towards fine lines.
With two exceptions, I could tell exactly what monster was depicted on each tile (a good thing). The exceptions were the vampire, which looked like an evil chain-wielding guy, and the goblin, which looked like a tiny elf.
Because Monster Tiles show the entire creature, rather than, say, a closeup of its head and upper body, smaller creatures are harder to make out on a 1″ square.
The logo on the back of each tile makes sense from a branding standpoint, but I would have preferred to see the creature’s name there as well (or nothing at all, which would presumably cut down on costs).
Durability
In terms of durability, there are a few areas to consider — and it’s a bit of an odd topic.
If this were a review of a set of cardstock counters, it probably wouldn’t come up; everyone knows what cardstock is like. With plastic or metal miniatures, it might or might not come up — they’re also a known quantity, barring poor castings or too-small parts.
But these tiles are ceramic, and ceramic makes me think of breakable things. This concern also came up when I first linked to Monster Tiles, and I suspect it’s of interest to many potential buyers.
I’m not running a game at the moment, so I couldn’t just test them at my next session. Instead, I performed a few simple tests to simulate the kinds of treatment these tiles would get during play. I also took into account one of the main ways that they’re meant to be transported: inside a velour storage bag.
In looking at durability, I wanted to answer three questions: Will they break? Will they chip? And will the artwork rub off?
In terms of breakage, the answer is no — they’re made of a pretty tough ceramic. I banged two tiles together, and dropped a small and a large tile onto a hard floor from about three feet up, and they didn’t break.
When I smacked one tile against another, the smaller one chipped slightly. Casual contact and being jangled around together had no effect, though. In terms of chipping, they seem like they’ll hold up well.
Rubbing two tiles together lightly left tiny visible marks on the bottom tile’s artwork. Rubbing them together hard had an immediate effect, stripping away several bits of the image.
They’re not likely to get rubbed together vigorously during normal use, but if you carry them in a bag they’ll probably rub together lightly at least occasionally. That’s a concern, but not a major one — they hold up well to hands and fingernails.
Update: In the comments below, David DeHart from Ocho Games mentioned that the sample tiles he sent me are not the ones that are currently for sale on their website.
They’re actually the next incarnation of Monster Tiles (premiering at Origins), which does not feature a glossy sealant/coating, and are therefore less expensive. I didn’t know this when writing the review.
Compared to Counters and Plastic Minis
Monster Tiles are a new idea, so they’re automatically going to be compared to the two closest existing ideas, miniatures and counters. It’s tough to stack them up against unpainted metal miniatures, which have a different appeal, but they’re quite close to both counters and prepainted plastic minis.
Monster Tiles cost $1.10 per 1″ tile and $2.75 per 2″ tile. The smaller ones are sold in sets of five for $5.50, while the big guys come in pairs for the same price.
Counter Collection IV (Fiery Dragon) offers 570+ cardstock counters for $18.95, which is a bit more than $0.03 per counter.
A booster pack of D&D minis from the Wardrums set (Wizards of the Coast) runs $12.99 for eight randomized, prepainted plastic minis, or $1.62 per figure.
Compared to cardstock counters, Monster Tiles are heavier and more satisfying to fiddle with, but also substantially more expensive. Compared to D&D minis, they’re a nice price — you can buy three tiles for about the price of two minis, which is pretty good — but don’t have quite as much visual appeal.
From a GM’s Perspective
As a GM, cardstock counters seem like a better option than Monster Tiles. Although Ocho Games offers a good range of standard d20 fantasy critters (with more on the way, including NPCs), counters provide much more variety for a fraction of the cost. For me, having lots of monsters on hand beats out the fact that Monster Tiles are more fun to handle than counters.
Stacked up against prepainted plastic minis, though, they do much better. Unlike randomized boosters, I can buy only the tiles that I need. With minis, I could go buy singles (loose figures, sold individually), but if I wanted rare monsters I’d have to spend quite a bit more to get them.
On the durability front, I don’t think Monster Tiles will hold up quite as well over time as plastic minis. Minis benefit from their light weight and the way in which their paint is applied. The weight of Monster Tiles works against them, making it more likely that they’ll ding each other up a bit during travel.
Should I Buy Them?
If you like cardstock counters, probably not — the price:variety ratio just doesn’t compare. On the other hand, they’re easier to pick up and move around on the table than counters, which can be finicky because they’re so thin. If you don’t need a ton of creatures, though, Monster Tiles are a good alternative to counters.
If you like prepainted miniatures, it depends. Like minis, Monster Tiles have a good heft to them, and they’re a bit cheaper. Assuming you don’t have a shop nearby that sells loose D&D miniatures (there are none in my area), then being able to pick and choose Monster Tiles is a big advantage over randomized boosters of minis.
One final thing to consider: David (of Ocho Games) emailed me with this info about future pricing:
After crunching numbers we came up with a new MSRP (due at Origins) of $4.00 per 5-pack of medium-sized creatures and $4.00 per 2-pack of large creatures. This breaks [the] cost down to $.80 per tile (medium) and $2.00 per tile (large).
Was this review useful to you? Do you have any questions about Monster Tiles that I didn’t answer here, but could address based on my sample tiles?
Martin,
I didn’t see you mention it, so I’ll ask: Are the tiles round, or square?
Do they scratch the surface of Tac-tiles?
These sound interesting. Do you have a listing of what creatures are available right now?
Thank you.
I would hazard a guess (but I’ve never seen touched or used the product so take it with a grain of salt), that giving the tiles a coat of miniture sealant on both sides (matte or glossy depends on your preference) that it would clear up some of the issues brough up above. Specifically it would probably reduce the “unfinished ceramic” texture of the tiles, and make chipping, rubbing, and smearing of the pictures less likely. That’s what it’s for after all. I would suggest trying it on one tile first (or contacting the manufacturer ahead of time since some sealant chemicals can dissolve some paints (an issue I had a few years ago with some no-name sealant and paints).
In addition, I would also offer that for the craft-minded among us, a standard collector card box, a few strips of styrofoam, an exacto knife, and some Elmer’s glue would make a nice carrying case for these tiles. Though it would certainly end up far more bulky than a cloth bag, it would offer some additional protection. In fact, painting an abbreviation of the monster’s name on the side of the tile would allow for quick organization and finding the correct tiles in a box like this. (paint first, then seal).
I couldn’t care less about the branding on the back (though if it cuts down on prices to not have it, I’m game) but I would suggest that printing the name of the monster on (a single) side is a far superior alternative to printing it on the back for those of us who are sneaky DMs and want to keep our tiles out for ease of play but face down to keep our players guessing.
Another alternative to this would be to have tiles produced with different monsters on each side (ones that aren’t likely to be needed simultaniously of course, perhaps pairing ogres with centaurs or something similar and ones with similar frequency. I don’t want 15 liches, so I wouldn’t expect them paired with orcs.) that way you’re getting two counters for the price of one (depending on the number of colors used in the logo however, this may increase the printing costs).
It also might be worth mentioning that you can find white 1″ by 1″ tile on the internet for less than a quarter each, and that for that price you can paste your carboard counters to the white ceramic pieces and get a similar product for less than three for a dollar. It’s a little more effort, but it STILL beats painting minatures by a long shot. Properly sealed (though you’d have to talk to someone more experieced than I about how to properly seal a piece of cardboard pasted to a ceramic tile) it would even be spill resistant.
You know what I’d pay $1.00 a tile for? Some blank ones with a shallow groove cut out of most of the top to hold a counter. (With the counter laying flat, just like the tile itself.) You buy a set of 20 or 30 or more, then reuse them with all the counters that you have. That few could come in a carry case that would handle storage/transport easily.
For that matter, such a set would make a great add-on to the base product. Buy the tiles for things you use a lot, and use the blank ones with counters to supplement.
I would not expect many folks to compare these to miniatures. The 3-d sculpt of miniatures is something that is one of the main attractions to miniatures.
Though with their heft, they would make a good supplement to a miniatures collection.
I’d go for name on the back (though on one side would be nice also for vertical storage). The thing is I turn counters over to signify downed creatures. Knowing which one is which would be useful.
The finish issues mentioned significantly detract from my interest in this product.
Frank
Along the line of Jerome’s comment, Larger sized tiles with holes to accomidate smaller tiles in the center would be nice for when you use “hit die progression” on your monsters and they go up sizw categories. Not necesarily the most attractive option, but it beats having to buy a bunch of different sizes for all the monsters that change in this way or not being able to use them at all.
If I was going to spend money on tiles I would like to see them with the name of the monster printed on all four sides, so you can pick them out easier out of what ever storage you use, as well as haveing alternative pictures on the back side, either a second monster to double your number of monsters, or a dead version of the same monster. While it may be argued that have a blank or logoed side keeps the monsters identity a secret until the GM is ready to reveal it, just not puting out a tile until he is ready would be better since the players can tell by the tiles presence that there is either a big or small monster there.
From the sound of it the company might be better off figuring out a way of makeing thier tiles into a game by itself, then make exspandtions, since people might be more likely to buy a game with peices that can double as minitures.
At 3 cents a token for cardboard counters, and judging by the durability of my most used counters, the ceramic tokens would have to last generations to be worth it on durability alone (really, I have cardboard counters I have been using 20 YEARS, assuming a $1.25 ceramic token, it would have to be in use for 800 years…). And lets say a nice color printed counter only lasts 1 year of hard use, that’s still 40 years of counters for the cost of a ceramic token.
Sure, they do have a durability advantage, and that may be valuable to some folks, but I want to make it clear what the durability trade off really is.
Oh, another advantage cardboard counters have, in the same volume, I can carry a lot more cardboard counters than 1/4″ thick ceramic tokens. And the cardboard will be lighter.
Frank
Oops, sorry about the inversion of the division, which resulted in a $1.25 price instead of $0.80… At $0.80 it would still be 26x or 520 years…
During those 20 years, I’ve gone through phases where I didn’t use the counters much at all, but I’ve certainly used them solidly for several years. Perhaps it’s the way I store them, but they get a lot of use because I have several sets of 1/2″ counters numbered 1-10 etc. that I use for most encounters (of course these are not as nice as a color illustrated counter – and I suspect a Fiery Dragon Press counter would not be quite as durable as the counters I used, which were old blank counters, not sure who they were from, they’re also reasonably thick – but not 1/4″).
There is one probable advantage to the tiles that I don’t think has been mentioned. I would guess your counters are pretty resistant to gusts of air(from the window, a fan, or whatever), possibly even more resistant than the plastic D&D miniatures. Cardboard counters can tend to go flying.
My big point is that I don’t see the durability as a significant advantage. And the other advantages don’t seem worth the significantly higher price.
One interesting question – what is the price per tile of a decent Mah Jong set with engraved tiles? My curiousity is that engraved (and then inked) tiles would virtually eliminate the rub-off potential (which would still seriously concern me, unless the paint is baked on enamel). Of course that would tend to only support monochrome line art, but part of me would be more wowed by such a product for this price range than full color art.
It is really neat to have something be a part of your game for so long.
Of course my first Battlemat is older (about 25 years old, perhaps a bit more), and my 1st edition RuneQuest rule book is even older (28 years for that).
Frank
David: Thank you for following up — it’s always good to hear directly from the publisher, and your responses are thoughtful and well-reasoned.
I’ve updated my review with the tidbit you mentioned (about having sent me the next version of the tiles, not the current version).
It’s interesting to read everyone’s comments on this review — I didn’t expect it to generate such a variety of reactions, or so many ideas for different approaches to Monster Tiles.
Well, it’s definitely an interesting idea for a product. I don’t know that I’m sold on them, but I’d be willing to at least give them a try, especially if the art is nice. I see Ocho Games will be at Gen Con this year, so I will definitely have to stop by and check them out and speak with the Ocho fellas. And I agree, it’s nice to have a publisher be well-reasoned, polite, and honest about their product. Many points for that. 🙂
In reards to Frank’s comment on the extended durability to make these price the same as cardstock counters, don’t forget that there are ceramic game pieces in museums that have lasted thousands of years. I don’t doubt, were we to abstract this to our great-grandchildren playing DnD that these tiles would still exist (albeit a little worse for wear).
I want to echo Rick The Wonder Algae’s sentiments. I buy chip/particle-board minis bases from my FLGS (the brand is “George Bases”, but Googling didn’t find me a lnik); they come in an assortment of sizes, are not slotted, and are very cheap. Basically, they look like dark brown Scrabble pieces with sharp edges.
To these I glue Firey Dragon cardboard counters, or even images I size and print out with my PC. It’s a simple thing, but I always gets positive comments when I use them at cons.
The really nice thing about using the FD counters is that a) they’re portraits, so it’s easy to tell them apart, and b) you can mark them with wet-erase markers (“Orc 1”, “Orc 2”, etc).
So, the tile concept is awesome, and I commend Ocho for picking up on it. But I think that you can achieve the same end result with a little glue and lot less money.
But aren’t those ceramic pieces in museums either engraved or glazed? The impression I got from Martin’s experment with scratching the printing is that it’s printed on which is likely to be much less durable than glazing or engraving. Also, those museum pieces may not be representative of overall durability since at least some are the lucky piece that managed to survive (figure anything has some kind of half-life type of deal for survival – with various things causing loss – breakage, burning, etc).
Assuming a durable printing that is not subject to wear, I would expect tiles to easily last generations, which is cool. But the question I would ask myself is is that increased life span worth the extra cost to me? For me, the answer is no.
I have thought about getting blank scrabble pieces for counters though…
I don’t discount the additional heft of a tile over a cardboard counter.
But at the rate I’m using my blank counters, I’ve got a lifetime supply. And my FDP counters – they get beefed up by being glued to carboard from the backs of notepads and such (costing me nothing but a bit of glue – anytime I finish a notepad, the cardboard backing goes into my supply closet).
Frank
Well, I assume these things would last forever (prctically) given good treatment, but really there’s a limit on how much lifespan is valuable to an individual consumer. Yes, these things may (given good treatment) last hundreds of years, but only the next 30 or so are of any value to me. Beyond that, I don’t want to pay for it.
I like my fold-up triangular paper counters. The SRD images are free, and you can cram 22 medium-sized creatures on a single 8.5×11 sheet.